Neo-Spacegodzilla vs. Spacegodzilla

[lordnidhogg]

Neo-Spacegodzilla: tkarena.proboards81.com/index.cgi?board=stats&action=display&thread=1183430162&page=1#1183430162

Vs.

Spacegodzilla: tkarena.proboards81.com/index.cgi?board=stats&action=display&thread=1190479596

Arena: Tokyo
Rules: Both have crystals to draw power from. Spacegodzilla cannot form a black hole.

Well...I think it was easy to see this coming once I posted the demonstration battle for Spacegodzilla. Anyways, I'm going to do something a little different and look at why the Neo-Spacegodzilla would win first.

-The Gravity Tornado. That thing is nasty. It's bad enough that it can throw SG around pretty bad, but paralyzing him isn't nice at all.

-Plasma Absorbtion. Arguably the best reason why he could pull a win. Spacegodzilla has a lot of beam weapons, all of which at least have plasma properties, that Neo-Spacegodzilla wouldn't need to worry as much about as normal kaiju.

-Regeneration. Neo-Spacegodzilla's regeneration is consistent, Spacegodzilla's isn't.

-Mind Reading. He's going to know what's coming, that's a given. Even if SG can give him hell over reading his mind, he'll still probably find out what he wants to know more often than not.

Ok, now why I think Spacegodzilla would win:

-Crystal Missiles. Spacegodzilla's are better. Period. Neo-Spacegodzilla is mean with his crystals, but Spacegodzilla is downright evil. Their normal properties put them roughly on par with Neo-Spacegodzilla's. Add to that the ability to be turned to pure energy, which would get them past his shield and telekinesis, and their ability to super-harden, and they're vastly superior to Neo-Spacegodzilla's.

-Psychokinesis. Like the crystals, Neo-Spacegodzilla is good, Spacegodzilla is better. He plain and simple has more powerful telekinetic strength.

-Energy Manipulation. This is going to wreak havoc on Neo-Spacegodzilla. Like Spacegodzilla, Neo-Spacegodzilla is for all intents and purposes a creature of energy. He draws it from his crystals and uses it in his attacks. If that process is suddenly screwed with, he's in hot water.

-Corona Web. As if Spacegodzilla's energy manipulating powers didn't make it hard enough for Neo-Spacegodzilla to use beams on Spacegodzilla, this seals the deal. Spacegodzilla can simply absorb it if it's fired at him (crystals obviously not included).

-Gravity Manipulation. While not as devious as Neo-Spacegodzilla's Gravity tornado, this does have a use. It pretty much serves as a "get out of gravity tornado free" card, countering Neo-Spacegodzilla's screwed up gravity.

-Physical Strength. Neo-Spacegodzilla is strong. But Spacegodzilla is ungodly, Rygama-caliber strong. And that's without telekinetic enhancement.

-Physical Durability. Neo-Spacegodzilla may recover better from damage, but Spacegodzilla is going to take less. His incredibly strong, dense form is going to prevent a large amount of damage that Neo-Spacegodzilla is going to dish out.

-Nova Beam. It's huge, it's energy inefficient, and it's a weapon of last resort, but once SG uses it, Neo-Spacegodzilla won't be there anymore. Neo-Spacegodzilla might be able to absorb plasm, but this beam has so many properties and so much raw power that it wouldn't matter much.

So, right now I'm going to withhold my decision because I want to see what others think. I think it would be an awesome fight either way, and they're both juggernauts. Abstain for now.

[Inferno Rodan]

lordnidhogg said:

-Psychokinesis. Like the crystals, Neo-Spacegodzilla is good, Spacegodzilla is better. He plain and simple has more powerful telekinetic strength.

Debatable.

And what kind of energy do SG's crystals turn into anyway?

[lordnidhogg]

admin said:

lordnidhogg said:

-Psychokinesis. Like the crystals, Neo-Spacegodzilla is good, Spacegodzilla is better. He plain and simple has more powerful telekinetic strength.

Debatable.

And what kind of energy do SG's crystals turn into anyway?

Well, as Spacegodzilla can exert/lift over 20,000,000 tons with his psychokinesis and Neo-Spacegodzilla has yet to demonstrate anything near that capability. Although, your description of his telekinetic strength is more than a little vague.

As for the crystals, they don't turn into plasma if that's what you're asking. Which wouldn't make sense since plasma is energized, not energy. They turn into a complex energy matrix where all of the matter is basically turned into pure energy, but kept in a structured form, and thus able to re-form into crystals, by Spacegodzilla's control over energy, and the directionality of the energy itself. As for what type of energy, it would mostly be very high level cosmic radiation, with some lower level stuff thrown in for kicks and grins.

[Inferno Rodan]

lordnidhogg said:

As for what type of energy, it would mostly be very high level cosmic radiation,

...Which would make it plasma. Plasma is highly energized gas. Nearly any energy weapon that's actually capable of doing physical damage to a kaiju is going to be plasmatic. The only real exceptions are the really wonky ones like the Gravity Beams and ULT Lasers/Absolute Zero Cannon.

[lordnidhogg]

No it isn't plasma because there enough matter in it. All of the matter in the crystals is converted to energy. Plasma is an cloud of particles energized so much that the the protons, neutrons, and electrons break apart. Spacegodzilla's crystals no such level of matter when they're in an energy state. They are invisible, except to those that see energy like Spacegodzilla, they have no physical impact, and they have none of the properties of of matter like mass. They become super highly energized nuclear, electromagnetic, and thermal energy.

The nuclear energy properties instantaneously change the nuclear mass into pure energy. this energy would be broken up into some nuclear radiation, but mostly ultra high energy level cosmic radiation, and raw thermal energy.

Now, the cosmic radiation does have some properties of a plasma in that it involves individual particles. However, it's radiation not a plasma. The particles are too far apart to affect each other, which is needed in according to the definition of a plasma. Also, they have more wavelike properties and travel faster and with more energy than plasma.

So, I don't see them fitting the bill as plasmas.

[Inferno Rodan]

lordnidhogg said:

They become super highly energized nuclear, electromagnetic, and thermal energy.

i.e. Plasma.

[lordnidhogg]

No. Look it up. Plasma is a cloud of highly energized particles. Radiation, which is mostly what comprises SG's energy crystals, is made of fluctuating waves of energy. The very few particles involved, aka the "Oh-My-God" ultra-high-energy cosmic radiation protons, are too far apart to interact with other other particles, precluding them from becoming a plasma. Plasma is what stars are. You can see plasma. Radiation is invisible. Radiation is generated from other things. His crystals share some properties with plasma, which makes sense since plasma is about the closest matter comes to energy normally, but they *are not plasma*. They just don't meet the matter requirements.

Energy=/= plasma. Nuclear, thermal, and cosmic energy combined =/= plasma. Now, if it was matter that was super-energized by those energies, then you would be one-hundred percent correct and I would concede to your point. But the matter, the electrons, protons, and neutrons, forming the crystals themselves is converted directly and totally into pure energy of those types following Einstein's equation E=mc^2. So, once more, while they share some properties with plasmas, they are total energy in their *energy* state, and do not qualify as an energized cloud of gas or any other state of matter because they are no longer matter. They are energy and cannot be absorbed as a plasma.

EDIT: To help illustrate my point, here are the definitions of plasma and cosmic radiation.

Plasma is a form of matter in which many of the electrons wander around freely among the nuclei of the atoms. Plasma has been called the fourth state of matter, the other three being solid, liquid, and gas. Taken from:whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci864603,00.html
And
The plasma approximation: Charged particles must be close enough together that each particle influences many nearby charged particles, rather than just interacting with the closest particle (these collective effects are a distinguishing feature of a plasma). The plasma approximation is valid when the number of electrons within the sphere of influence (called the Debye sphere whose radius is the Debye (screening) length) of a particular particle is large. From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_%28physics%29

n ultra-high-energy cosmic ray (UHECR) is a cosmic ray (subatomic particle) which appears to have extreme kinetic energy, far beyond both its rest mass and energies typical of other cosmic rays. From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-energy_cosmic_ray
And
Cosmic rays are energetic particles originating from space that impinge on Earth's atmosphere. Almost 90% of all the incoming cosmic ray particles are protons, about 9% are helium nuclei (alpha particles) and about 1% are electrons. The term "ray" is a misnomer, as cosmic particles arrive individually, not in the form of a ray or beam of particles. From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_radiation

I bolded the parts of th cosmic ray and plasma definitions that are most important. The major distinguishing difference between cosmic radiation and plasma are the particles. Cosmic radiation doesn't have a high number of particles, and they don't really interact-they're just incredibly high energy. Plasma is also high energy, but not as high energy, and there are exponentially more particles and they interact a lot more.

[THE GODZILLA]

Umm, you both realize that this debate isn't gonna end right? >.>

Anyway, I'm not sure who's gonna win. Both have their advantages over the other, but they seem fairly matched against one another.

[lordnidhogg]

Of course this debate will end, just like all of the others. Inferno Rodan will realize that he's got newer, more important things to think about, and I'll see something shiny that will make me forget all about it .

[Inferno Rodan]

Ugh. Nidhogg, the very fact that these extreme amounts of energy are within the atmosphere means that they will generate plasma. You know what lightning is? The manifestation of extremely powerful electromagnetic energy. You know what fire is? The manifestation of intense heat energy. Both are plasma. The energy itself is not technically plasma. But it generates plasma. Thus NSG can absorb both.

[lordnidhogg]

Ok. I see what you're saying, but I don't think that it would make a plasma. My reasoning for this is very simple: I've never heard of uranium spontaneously catching on fire.

However, for the sake of argument, let's assume you're right ( you might be, I'm no expert about radiation) and say that their ultra high energy levels would indeed create a plasma. I don't think that it would do Neo-Spacegodzilla any good. Why? Well, mostly because if he tried to absorb them, Spacegodzilla would return them to a matter state, and then detonate them. Neo-Spacegodzilla probably wouldn't survive the experience, or at least be able to recover from it. Plus, it would be so much energy, assuming Spacegodzilla had enough crystals, that it would plasmolize the entire area, and the energy crystals would still be moving through the plasma. The energy crystals would be separate and distinct from the plasma they caused, and just because Neo-Spacegodzilla could absorb the plasma, doesn't mean he could absorb the energy crystals themselves.

Why? Because even compared to other high-energy particles, cosmic rays are fast. Too fast to become solidly associated with the plasma they generate. Basically, you can absorb the plasma, but you can't catch the crystals. And if you did, just see above for the result.

Also, one interesting thing I found out: cosmic radiation basically functions as a suped-up charged particle beam. Knowing that, here's the best way that I can explain how the matter-energy crystals work, so I hope this helps: all matter has energy. All matter can be converted to energy according to it's mass, as Einstein proved with E=MC^2. Spacegodzilla takes his crystals and converts their matter into the highest energy state possible, that is, they have the same amount of energy with the least amount of mass, aka ultra-high-energy cosmic rays.

Now, given his control over energy, and the original structure of the matter, they are able to maintain a state of organization that allows to undo the transformation. While in the high-energy state they are practically not there, given how little matter they've been forced into. To maintain this state, they would put out huge amounts of energy which would ionize the matter around them forming plasma, as you said. However, the particles would be moving at such high speed and putting off so much energy that they would actually push the plasma out and away from themselves, basically making a loose shell and/or a contour trail of some kind.

So, what does all that blather mean? It would mean what I said earlier: they would produce plasma to be absorbed, but wouldn't be subject to the same fate, unlike the lower energy particles of lightning or fire.

[Inferno Rodan]

You keep switching between saying they're pure energy and saying they're charged particles. Until you make up your mind, I'm done here.

[lordnidhogg]

Well, unfortunately, and I will fully admit this, I've wanted them to be pure energy, but explaining that in a logical way is difficult. So if you will accept the explanation that they just work via some sci-fi principle, then that's how it works. They turn into pure energy: invisible, felt by effect only, basically typeless (as in not really classifiable), and subject only to Spacegodzilla's control.

However, in an endeavor to be realistic for the sake of argument, I've tried to make them cosmic rays and all sorts of other things. So, if you have them be realistic, then the end argument of my previous post is what I will stand by.

Personally, I would prefer the former, as it was my original intent, but as it is basically one giant fallacy, I can see why the more realistic explanation might be better. Although, it might be simpler with the less realistic explanation, then at least the argument over their plasma properties would be over. So, please note that I am in no way trying to be a problem, and I'm leaving the choice of explanation up to you. I'm not sure what level of realism you expect. Anyways, sorry if I frustrated you.

And a side note: radiation, such as cosmic radiation, is energy in the form of wave and moving particles.